Comments on: Microsoft Windows tax refund, from Dell

By: Simos Xenitellis

Simos Xenitellis — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 00:09:08 +0000

@yungchin: Thanks for the ZDNET URL. It appears it mainly has references from 2006 and 2007, and nothing newer than 2007.

Regarding the relative difficulty in getting the refund, there is another case I have been into that I did not blog about yet.

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By: yungchin

yungchin — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 23:46:20 +0000

PS – completely off-topic: I really like your WP comments-plugin that shows browser/OS details!

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By: yungchin

yungchin — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 23:44:42 +0000

I think I have to agree with nnonix that you can’t really say MS is at fault for your license refund issues. As for the influence of MS on the availability of Windows-less PCs: ZDNet UK has written an awful lot about it – http://www.zdnet.co.uk/tsearch/naked+pc.htm

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By: Simos Xenitellis

Simos Xenitellis — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:18:33 +0000

@nnonix: I presume neither of us has the full picture of the contracts between Microsoft and the manufacturers, and specifically how to deal with the case when the customer rejects Microsoft software. And in order to figure out whether anti-competition takes place, you take into account the full picture. That is, how easy it is for a manufacturer to sell computers without Microsoft software (Microsoft apparently gives discounts to those who sell only Windows, promote Windows on their website, products). For the case of Microsoft software rejection, the real issue is what effect does that have to the manufacturer. Does the manufacturer get any money back from Microsoft for the credit/refund they gave to the customer? Most likely they do not.

I suppose neither of us are anti-competition experts, nor we know the full picture of the Microsoft-manufacturer contracts. We are mystified as to why there are no computers in the market without Microsoft software.

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By: nnonix

nnonix — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 08:37:36 +0000

@Simos

Great but the question you asked and the question I answered had specifically to do with the ease at which one could obtain a refund and if that constituted anti-competition. It does not for the reasons I stated earlier.

It’s becoming obvious that you really want to condemn Microsoft for something. Surely Microsoft deserves to be condemned for several things but this isn’t one of them.

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By: Simos Xenitellis

Simos Xenitellis — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:39:07 +0000

@nnonix: The issue with Intel and the fine they received from the EU had to do with special agreements between Intel and manufacturers to avoid using AMD products. Manufacturers would get preferential treatment, lower prices, if they avoided AMD CPUs.

There are indications that Microsoft has such agreements with some manufacturers. See, for example, which manufacturers are able to sell discounted Windows 7 computers.

@Martin, @TheOpensourcerer: Thanks for the links. I went through the stores at nakedcomputers, though I did not find a computer with my preferred specs.

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By: nnonix

nnonix — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 04:34:12 +0000

@Simos

I doubt Microsoft would make it any easier than it is. None of this constitutes anti-competition as it all happens after you knowingly (and by purchase, willingly) chose to buy a computer with Windows already installed.

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By: Twitted by pr_linux

Twitted by pr_linux — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 04:07:18 +0000

[...] This post was Twitted by pr_linux [...]

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By: Martin

Martin — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:52:14 +0000

I have found a german online shop, selling linux laptops. Maybe this would be an alternative. Actually, I don’t know, if they are selling international:
http://www.tuxbooks.de

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By: Alan Pope

Alan Pope — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:04:24 +0000

Thanks for documenting this fully. It’s worth getting the word out that this kind of thing is possible.

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By: Microsoft Windows tax refund, from Dell « Mi blog lah!

Microsoft Windows tax refund, from Dell « Mi blog lah! — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:50:34 +0000

[...] the whole story here: Simos Xenitellis aggregated by [...]

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By: Steve Dodier

Steve Dodier — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:46:56 +0000

Seeing how hard it is in most cases to get a refund and how cheap it is compared to the real price of the software, it is illegal for sure at least in France, but also in the whole EU (but i don’t know the exact law number for EU. In France it’s mostly violations of L122-1 L113-3 and L111-1 of the Code de la Consommation).

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