Mi blog lah! Το ιστολόγιό μου

16Jul/070

GUADEC Day #2

(see http://www.guadec.org/schedule/warmup)

At the first presentation, Quim Gil talked about GNOME marketing, what have been done, what is the goal of marketing. He showed a focused mind on important marketing tasks; it is easy to get carried away and not be effective, a mistake that happens in several projects.

The next session was by Tomas Frydrych (Open Hand - I have their sticker on my laptop!) on memory use in GNOME applications. Many people complain that XYZ is bloated. However, this does not convey what exactly happens; pretty useless. In addition, the common tools that show memory use do not show the proper picture because of the memory management techniques. That is, due to shared libraries, the total memory occupied by an application appears very big. A tool examined is exmap. This tool uses a kernel module that shows memory use of applications by reading in /proc. It takes a snapshot of memory use; it's not real-time info. It comes with a GTK+ front-end (gexmap) that requires a big screen (oops, PDAs). However, it is not suitable for internet tablets and other low-spec devices. Therefore, they came up with exmap-console which addresses the shortcommings. It has a console interface based on the readline library.

Here are the rest of my notes. Hope they make sense to you.

. exmap --interactive
. ?: help
. Head: quite useful (dynamic allocation)
. Mapped:
. Sole use: memory that app is using on its own (rss?)
. "sort vm"
. "print" or "p"
. "add nautilus"
. "clear"
. "detail file" (what executables/libs loaded and how much consume)
. "detail none"

Sole use
. valgrind, to analyse Sole Use memory?
. "detail ????"

Lots of small libraries: overhead

Looking ahead
. Pagemap: by Matt Macall
. http://projects.o-hand.com/exmap-console/

Python
. Sole use: ~18MB ;-(

Tomas was apparently running Ubuntu with the English UK locale. The English UK translation team is doing an amazing job at the translation stats. Actually, most messages are copied, however with a script one can pick up words such as organization and change to organisation. The problem here is that, for example, the GAIM mo file is 215KB (?), however for the British English translation the actual changes should be less than 2-3KB. Messages that are missing from a translation mean that the original US English messages will be used. I'll have to find how to use msgfilter to make messages untranslated if msgid == msgstr. Where is Danilo?

After lunch time (did not go for lunch), I went to the Accerciser session. Pretty cool tool, something I have been look for. Accerciser uses the accessibility framework of GNOME in order to inspect the windows of running applications and see into the properties. A good use is to identify if elements such as text boxes come with description labels; they are important to be there for accessibility purposes (screen reader), as a person that depends on software to read (text to speech) the contents of windows.

The next session was GNOME accessibility for blind people. Jan Buchal gave an excellent presentation.

My notes,

. is from Chech republic, is blind himself. has been using computers for 20+ years

. from user perspective
. users, regular and irregular ;-)
. software
. firefox 3.0beta - ok for accessibility other versions no
. gaim messenger ok
. openoffice.org ok but did not try
. orca screenreader ^^^ works ok.
. generally ready for prime time
. ubuntu guy for accessibility was there
. made joke about not having/needing display slides ;-]
. synthesizer: festival, espeak, etc - can choose
. availability of voices
. javascript: not good for accessibility
. links/w3m: just fine!
. firefox3 makes accessibility now possible.
. web designer education, things like title="", alt="" for images.
. OOo, not installed but should work, ooo-gnome
. "braillcom" company name
. "speech dispatcher"
. logical events
. have short sound event instead of "button", "input form"
. another special sound for emacs prompt, etc.
. uses emacs
. have all events spoken, such as application crashing.
. problems of accessibility
. not money main factor, but still exists.
. standard developers do not use accessibility functions
. "accessor" talk, can help
. small developer group on accessiblity, may not cooperate well
. non-regular users (such as blind musician)
. musicians
. project "singing computer"
. gtk, did not have good infrastructure
. used lilypond (music typesetter, good but not simple to use)
. singing mode in festival
. use emacs with special mode to write music scores (?)
. write music score and have the computer sing it (this is not "caruso")
. gnome interface for lilypond would be interesting
. chemistry for blind
. gtk+
. considering it
. must also work, unfortunately, on windows
. gtk+ for windows, not so good for accessibility
. conclusion: free accessibility
. need users so that applications can be improved
. have festival synthesizer, not perfect but usable
. many languages, hindi, finnish, afrikaans
. endinburgh project, to reimplement festival better
. proprietary software is a disadvantage
. q: how do you learn to use new software?
. a: has been a computer user for 20+ years, is not good candidate to say
. a: if you are dedicated, you can bypass hardles, old lady emacs/festival/lilypond
. brrlcom, not for end-users(?)
. developer problem?
. generally there is lack of documentation; easy to teach what a developer needs to know
. so that the application is accessible
. HIG Human Interface Guidelines, accessible to the developers
. "speakup" project
. Willy, from Sun microsystems, working on accessibility for +20 years, Lead of Orca.
. developers: feel accessibility is a hindrance to development
. in practice the gap is not huge
. get tools (glade) and gtk+ to come with accessibility on by default
. accessibility
. is not only for people with disabilities
. can do amazing things like 3d interfaces something

These summaries are an important example of the rule that during presentation, participants tend to remember only about 8% of the material. In some examples, even less is being recollected.

16Jul/070

GUADEC Day #1

I am writing this in the morning of the second day (posted at the end of the second day). Just had breakfast and there is a bit of time before making it to the conference venue.

Yesterday Sunday, was the first of the two days of warm-up for the GUADEC conference. At 11am the registration started. I was in front of the queue and got my badge quickly, then picked up the bag with the goodies; three cool t-shirts, a copy of Ubuntu 7.04, Fedora 7 Live, Linux stickers, two Linux pens, a mini Google Code notebook (no, that's an actual notebook (not that type of notebook, it was just the paper-based thing)).

During registration I met up with Dimitrios Glezos (of Greek Fedora fame) and a bit later with Dimitrios Typaldos. It was the first time I met both of them in person.

Between a choice of two sessions I went to the one on X.org developments (XDamage, xrender, etc extensions and how to use them). Ryan Lortie gave the presentation.

Next was lunch time, and Dimitrios T. recommended a pub for traditional English food and drink. Sayamindu came along.

The next session I went to was the Hildon desktop, which is what we used to call Maemo; GNOME for internet tables such as the Nokia 770 and Nokia 800. There are special technical issues to solve. Lucas Rocha mentioned refactoring issues with the source code. In addition, as far as I understood, there is an issue with the internationalisation support for the platform.

Next, Don Scorgie talked about the GNOME documentation project. Several things can be improved and one of them is the introduction of a simplified XML schema for the needs of GNOME documentation. When compared to DocBook XML, the new GNOME documentation schema has only 6 elements (or do they call them tags?). In addition to this, there is a documentation editor with a special rich-edit widget for this schema. Mallard is a type of duck(?).

I also attended the last 10 minutes of the presentation on project Jackfield (sadly no special significance between Jackfield and what the project is about). Jackfield is apparently a way to run Javascript scripts on the desktop. OS/X is supposed to have it, and there are already scripts available. With Jackfield, you can run those scripts unmodified on Linux. The demos where really impressive.

The final session for the day was a presentation by Richard Rothwell on free software for the socially excluded. No, you do not have to go to Africa for this. His work relates to families in Nottingham, UK. It reminds me the situation and effort in Farkadona, Greece, that was described by Kostas Boukouvalas. I think it would have been helpful if Kostas Boukouvalas could have attended this. Richard is running a 3-year project that provides a number of PCs (in the hundreds?) with Linux to socially excluded families. Even in the UK, funding is hard to come by.

25Jun/071

Say No to OOXML

Click on the image above to visit the petition page.

I copy here the terms of the petition to say no on the standardisation of MSOOXML at ISO.

I ask the national members of ISO to vote "NO" in the ballot of ISO DIS 29500 (Office OpenXML or OOXML format) for the following reasons:

  1. There is already a standard ISO26300 named Open Document Format (ODF): a dual standard adds costs, uncertainty and confusion to industry, government and citizens;
  2. There is no provable implementation of the OOXML specification: Microsoft Office 2007 produces a special version of OOXML, not a file format which complies with the OOXML specification;
  3. There is missing information from the specification document, for example how to do a autoSpaceLikeWord95 or useWord97LineBreakRules;
  4. More than 10% of the examples mentioned in the proposed standard do not validate as XML;
  5. There is no guarantee that anybody can write a software that fully or partially implements the OOXML specification without being liable to patent damages or patent license fees by Microsoft;
  6. This standard proposal conflicts with other ISO standards, such as ISO 8601 (Representation of dates and times), ISO 639 (Codes for the Representation of Names and Languages) or ISO/IEC 10118-3 (cryptographic hash);
  7. There is a bug in the spreadsheet file format which forbids to enter any date before the year 1900: such bugs affects the OOXML specification as well as software versions such as Microsoft Excel 2000, XP, 2003 or 2007.
  8. This standard proposal has not been created by bringing together the experience and expertise of all interested parties (such as the producers, sellers, buyers, users and regulators), but by Microsoft alone.

This project is an initiative by the Foundation for a Free Information Infrastructure (FFII), the non-profit that helped achieve the rejection of the EU software patent directive in July 2005.

Update #1: Currently (26Jun07 - noon) there are 8805 signatures.
Update #2: Currently (26Jun07 - evening) there are 9481 signatures.
Update #3:

IT IS URGENT THAT YOU CONTACT YOUR STANDARDISATION BODY IN YOUR COUNTRY AND EXPLAIN THEM WHY OOXML IS BROKEN; SENDING A NICE LETTER TO YOUR STANDARDISATION BODY IN YOUR COUNTRY IS MORE IMPORTANT THEN SIGNING THE PETITION

20Jun/070

OpenVistA information system for hospitals and medical care

It is quite common to expect the availability of free and open-source software for common needs, such as an operating system and an office suite. What is the situation when your needs are much more advanced? Such as, when you are looking for an information system for a hospital?
Luckily, there is such a software package for an information system for hospital needs, called OpenVistA. OpenVistA comes from VistA, a public-funded medical system for the United States Department of Veterans Affairs. Due to the source of the funding, the source code of the medical system has been available with a liberal license, and gave birth to OpenVistA.
An interesting issue with OpenVistA is that the backend is written with the MUMPS programming language. This programming language is quite old with syntax dissimilar to modern languages. However, MUMPS has become popular in medical care systems and especially VistA. There are people that criticize the programming language; it is important to understand that a big piece of software working well has much more weight over the language preferences. In addition, the front-end is what the end-user uses, and in our case it is written with modern programming languages.
Screenshot of Mono frontend of OpenVistA
Traditionally, the major front-end of OpenVistA was written in Delphi. Quite recently, a new front-end has been written, in Mono. Thanks to Mono, the front-end is cross-platform and supports i18n (the front-end can be translated in many written languages).
You can try out OpenVistA straight away by downloading the OpenVistA VMWare appliance (image file that contains an installation of an operating system, configured and ready to use). The specific VMWare appliance is based on Xubuntu.
Software for hospitals is quite expensive, and is a lucrative business for software houses. However, when one takes into account that in many countries hospitals are public-funded, it is easy to understand how important it is to use free and open-source software in this case. Sadly, in many cases, hospitals make ad-hoc agreements for such software, resulting to inefficient use of public funds.

2Jun/070

Διαθέσιμη η νέα διανομή Fedora 7

Διαβάζοντας την ανακοίνωση του Δημήτρη, βλέπουμε τα νέα χαρακτηριστικά που περιλαμβάνει η νέα έκδοση της διανομής Fedora.
Η ελληνική ομάδα που είναι πίσω από τη διανομή Fedora μετάφρασε τις σημειώσεις κυκλοφορίας της Fedora 7 για την προσωπική σας ευχαρίστηση.
Ολοκλήρωσα χτες τη λήψη του DVD ISO της Fedora 7 και το γράφω τώρα σε οπτικό δίσκο.

Tagged as: , , No Comments
5Apr/070

Re: 11 Things You Haven’t Seen Yet in Ubuntu Feisty Fawn

Άρθρο του John Reese για τις βελτιώσεις του Ubuntu.

Από τα πιο σημαντικά:

1. Θα δουλεύει το 3D όπως είναι διαθέσιμο από τη διανομή Fedora Core 6. Δηλαδή θα είναι μια επιλογή στις Προτιμήσεις με το όνομα Desktop Effects. Ελπίζω να το μεταφράσαμε :)
Αν έχετε κάρτα γραφικών Intel, τότε το 3D desktop θα δουλεύει άμεσα, δίχως ανάγκη εγκατάστασης άλλου λογισμικού.
Το 3D desktop δεν βασίζεται στο Beryl αλλά στο Compiz, window managers. Ποιο είναι πιο καλό; Το Compiz φαίνεται να είναι αυτό που έχει όλο τον αρχικό κώδικα ενώ το Beryl έχει κάνει τρομερή δουλειά στο marketing και στις μικρορυθμίσεις/plugins. Σε κάθε περίπτωση τα δύο έργα ανακοίνωσαν ότι θα συγχωνευτούν και φαίνεται να οδεύουν στην κατεύθυνση αυτή.

2. Οι ρυθμίσεις δικτύου θα δουλεύουν καλύτερα και με αυτοματοποιημένο τρόπο, με χρήση του NetworkManager. Υπήρξαν κάποιες συζητήσεις για προβλήματα με το NetworkManager, ελπίζω να λυθούν σύντομα.

3. Δυνατότητα να δει κάποιος τους οδηγούς συσκευών κλειστού λογισμικού που χρησιμοποιεί. Τεχνολογικά είναι εύκολο να γραφτεί το πρόγραμμα αυτό, ουσιαστικά προσφέρει τη δυνατότητα να διαχωρίσει τα μηχανήματα που δουλεύουν πάνω σε πραγματικά ελεύθερο λογισμικό και σε όσα δεν.

2Apr/072

Using SVN for GNOME Translators

Update 3rd June 2009: This is a very old post when GNOME was using SVN for the VCS (now we use git). My blog theme does not show the year, so I am writing this in case you are confused by the post.

Now GNOME uses SVN to manage the development of the software.
To use SVN, the basic relevant commands are described at Getting the most out of Subversion in GNOME.

If you are a translator, the work is further simplified. You would normally new SVN to get a copy of the source code of a package so that you can extract the translation messages of the UI or the documentation. In addition, in some cases you can provide localised images and screenshots.

First of all, if you do not have an account on SVN yet, you need to connect using Anonymous access. You still have all access, however if you want to upload any translations would need to give them to someone else who has such an SVN account.

Furthermore, the source code of a package is often branched during a GNOME release so that when there is ongoing development, the released version of the package is not affected. Branches usually have a name similar to gnome-2-18. The not-branched branch is called trunk (or HEAD, in CVS lingo), where all cutting-edge development usually happens.

To checkout (here checkout means to obtain a copy) the source code of a package.

Checkout trunk as anonymous

svn checkout http://svn.gnome.org/svn/gnome-utils/trunk my-trunk-gnome-utils

Checkout trunk as simos

svn checkout svn+ssh://simos@svn.gnome.org/svn/gnome-utils/trunk my-trunk-gnome-utils

Checkout branch called "gnome-2-18" as anonymous

svn checkout http://svn.gnome.org/svn/gnome-utils/branches/gnome-2-18/ gnome-utils-stable

Checkout branch called "gnome-2-18" as simos

svn checkout svn+ssh://simos@svn.gnome.org/svn/gnome-utils/branches/gnome-2-18 gnome-utils-stable

To commit you changes means that you send your changes upstream to the project.
In order to commit, you enter the directory you checked out and you run

svn commit -m "Updated Greek translation"

The changes you make typically include updated your language's LL.po file, and also updating the ChangeLog file.

You cannot commit in a anonymous checkout. The system knows that it's you when you are commiting because the checkout command saved the username you used earlier.

In the SVN commands, you can abbreviate checkout with co, and commit with ci. Sometimes this leads to the most common newbie error; you tend to think that co is for commit. In practice you cannot make a mess though, as the command line parameters between the two actions are very different, and the command will fail.

13Mar/073

Μεταφορά του Πλανήτη ΕΛ/ΛΑΚ στο planet.ellak.gr!

Έγινε η μεταφορά του Πλανήτη ΕΛ/ΛΑΚ στην νέα τοποθεσία planet.ellak.gr!
Παρακαλούμε αλλάξτε τους σελιδοδείκτες σας να δείχνουν το νέο δικτυακό
τόπο.

Ο Πλανήτης ΕΛ/ΛΑΚ Ελλάδα Κύπρος είναι ένας συγκεντρωτής των πιο
πρόσφατων εγγραφών από τα ιστολόγια ανθρώπων που προσφέρουν με διάφορους
τρόπους με το ελεύθερο λογισμικό.

http://planet.ellak.gr/

Τα 3 πρώτα χρόνια της λειτουργίας του Πλανήτη ΕΛ/ΛΑΚ η φιλοξενία έγινε σε υπολογιστές του συλλόγου Hellenic Linux User Group (HELLUG), κάτω από το σύνδεσμο planet.hellug.gr.

Τώρα κάνουμε τη μεταφορά του Πλανήτη ΕΛ/ΛΑΚ στο νέο δικτυακό τόπο planet.ellak.gr, με φιλοξενία από το GRNET (http://www.ellak.gr). Θα
ήθελα να ευχαριστήσω και τους δύο οργανισμούς για την προσφορά τους.
Διαχείριση του Πλανήτη ΕΛ/ΛΑΚ Για τη διαχείριση του Πλανήτη ΕΛ/ΛΑΚ (προσθήκη του ιστολογίου σας, διαγραφή, τροποποίηση) παρακαλούμε να γραφτείτε στο Google Group
Πλανήτης ΕΛ/ΛΑΚ, στο σύνδεσμο
http://groups.google.com/group/Planet-ELLAK/

Για κάθε ερώτημα στείλτε μήνυμα σε αυτό το Google Group.

Ο Πλανήτης ΕΛ/ΛΑΚ είναι για τους ελληνόφωνους χρήστες· αν μπορείτε να διαβάσετε την ανακοίνωση αυτή και προσφέρετε στο ελεύθερο λογισμικό,
ζητήστε να μπει το ιστολόγιό σας.

Αν το ιστολόγιό σας επιτρέπει τη δημιουργία κατηγοριών (category) για τα
άρθρα σας, μπορείτε να φτιάξετε μια κατηγορία για το ελεύθερο λογισμικό
και να δώσετε το RSS feed για τη κατηγορία αυτή. Αυτό είναι ιδιαίτερα
σημαντικό αν γράφετε πολλά άρθρα με έντονο ενδιαφέρον για ζητήματα εκτός
ΕΛ/ΛΑΚ. Σε κάθε περίπτωση θα υπάρξει επικοινωνία/συζήτηση στην Ομάδα
Google Planet-ELLAK
.

Μπορείτε να γράφετε άρθρα ιστολογίου στα ελληνικά ή και αγγλικά.

Για την προσθήκη του ιστολογίου σας, στείλτε στην Ομάδα Google
Planet-ELLAK

  1. το πλήρες όνομά σας
  2. το rss feed που θέλετε να προστεθεί
  3. (προεραιτικά αλλά το προτιμούμε πολύ) μια φωτογραφία που θα
    μπαίνει στα άρθρα σας. Δείτε κεφάλια

Αν το ιστολόγιό σας ήταν στη προηγούμενη έκδοση του Πλανήτη ΕΛ/ΛΑΚ και
δεν εμφανίζεται στην νέα έκδοση στο planet.ellak.gr, επικοινωνήστε ξανά
μαζί μας. Έγινε επιλεκτική μεταφορά ιστολογίων που είχαν πρόσφατα άρθρα,
για την ευκολία του διαχειριστή.

Αν έχετε κάποιο έργο (project) για το ελεύθερο λογισμικό και πιστεύετε
ότι θα ήταν καλό να μπει στην πλευρική μπάρα (στα δεξιά) του Πλανήτη
ΕΛ/ΛΑΚ, παρακαλούμε στείλτε στην Ομάδα Google Planet-ELLAK.

  1. ένα banner με διαστάσεις 170x55, μορφή PNG
  2. το σύνδεσμο κάτω από το banner (δικτυακός τόπος του έργου)
  3. σύντομο κείμενο για alt="" (σύντομη λεκτική περιγραφή του έργου
  4. για προσπελάσεις που δεν φορτώνουν εικόνες, π.χ. φωνητική ανάγνωση
    σελίδας)
9Jan/075

Translating OLPC software

The core OLPC software is developed at http://dev.laptop.org/ using the GIT source code management system.
For the tasks of the translator, one needs to look into the different projects and locate any po/ subdirectory. The existence of this subdirectory show that the piece of software is internationalised (=can be translated).

For example, the core component sugar can be translated. In the main sugar page, and locate the po/ subdirectory that shows up. Click on it and you get the sugar po/ subdirectory with a few translations. Specifically, Yoruba, Hausa, Igbo and Italian. The italian translation is sadly useless. The translator made a mistake; he saw

msgid "Hello"

msgstr ""

and changed to (WRONG)

msgid "Ciao"

msgstr ""

instead of (CORRECT)

msgid "Hello"

msgstr "Ciao"

Normally, one would need to regenerate the Template PO (POT) file before translating, instead of working on one of the existing translated files. To do so, one needs to download the source code of sugar using the git tool and then use intltool-update -P to create the fresh sugar.pot file.

9Jan/072

Translating the OLPC

In a previous post, we covered how to install fonts and enabling writing support on the OLPC. The OLPC contains a limited number of applications that are available to be translated. These applications include

  1. NetworkManager, part of the GNOME project (HEAD, extras)
  2. alsa-utils, ???
  3. aspell, external
  4. atk10, part of the GNOME project (GNOME 2.18, developer)
  5. chkconfig, part of the Fedora Project
  6. diffutils, external
  7. glib20, part of the GNOME project (GNOME 2.18, developer)
  8. gst-plugins-base-0.10, external
  9. gst-plugins-good-0.10, external
  10. gstreamer-0.10, external
  11. gtk20-properties, part of the GNOME project (GNOME 2.18, developer)
  12. gtk20, part of the GNOME project (GNOME 2.18, developer)
  13. hal, external
  14. initscripts, part of the Fedora Project
  15. libc, part of the Translation Project (reduced version?)
  16. libuser, part of the Fedora Project
  17. libwnck, part of the GNOME Project (GNOME 2.18, desktop)
  18. stardict, external
  19. vte, part of the GNOME Project (GNOME 2.18, desktop)
  20. wget, part of the Translation Project

The links provided point to the latest available version. The versions that the OLPC using are not the latest with the upstream project, therefore keep in mind that the translated files may differ. It would be good to establish the exact .PO files from the OLPC project (URL to source?).

29Nov/060

International Call for Artists’ film and video

AT HOME IN EUROPE

Generous European Culture2000 funding enables ISIS Arts (UK) and it’s
international project partners BEK (Norway), InterSpace (Bulgaria) and
RIXC (Latvia) to curate a NEW SCREENING PROGRAMME around the theme of
European Identity for the Big M, ISIS Art’s inflatable touring space.

Daily, more and more European people decide to live in other European
countries. With a shifting concept of nationality it becomes
increasingly important to consider what it means to be European. Is
there such a thing as European Identity and how does it relate to
national identity?
For this programme we invite submissions of films or video works on this
theme from artists of any nationality.

Selected works will become part of the new screening programme which
will tour to the four partnering countries between May 2007 and
September 2007.
Work will be selected through open submission. In order to be considered
individual works must:

  • Have a running time of 5 minutes or less
  • Be single channel and non interactive
  • Address the project theme

Selected artists will receive an exhibition fee of € 300 (The Big M is
not a commercial venture and admission is free). Copyright remains
solely with the artist.

The Big M is a highly stylised inflatable structure that functions as a
temporary and mobile venue for the presentation of video and digital
media. Unique in both design and function, the Big M provides an
alternative to the conventional gallery setting and exhibits work by
emerging and established artists to diverse audiences.
See: http://www.isisarts.org.uk/index2.html

To submit pieces for consideration please send work on DVD, CD Rom (720x
576 dpi QuickTime movie) or mini DV, titled and with a synopsis of 50
words maximum, a CV and a stamped addressed envelope (if you want your
materials returned) to:

BEK
C Sundtsg 55
9. etage
5004 Bergen
Norway

Deadline for receipt of submissions is the 3rd of February 2007

Further inquiries to isis at isisarts dot org dot uk

Further project information can be found on
http://www.athomeineurope.eu/

29Nov/065

Improving DejaVu Serif for Greek

Vangelis Karageorgos  sent an e-mail to the DejaVu Fonts mailing list regarding his work on the Greek glyphs for the DejaVu Serif face.

The original Greek glyphs from DejaVu Serif 2.12 look like

The edition of DejaVu Serif (Greek) by Vangelis  Karageorgos look like

Ben Laenen from the DejaVu project, an  gave the following comments/advice

> as Simos mentioned, Serif already has Greek since a very long
> time now.
>
> however, I've never been really too happy about it [current state of Greek in Serif --simos], and some
> improvements are still pending. I also must say that I like the style
> of Vangelis' glyphs, even though it has some things I've personally
> never been too keen about, like the ita and chi without descender. In
> the glyphs I designed I also removed the serifs on the descenders,
> but they seem to work in Vangelis' style.
>
> Now, before we start thinking about replacing the glyphs in DejaVu: I
> first want to see some feedback from the Greek users to see which
> style they would like more, and what would have to be changed before
> they would accept them.
>
> Also, if these new glyphs get included, the Greek Extended block
> should be altered as well (work I'm not very keen on doing myself
> since I know how boring that work is :-) Some other glyphs in the
> main Greek block may need changes as well.

Now, the question is, do you like the Greek edition of DejaVu Serif by Vangelis Karageorgos? If you do like it or you do not, please say so. It would also be good to specify what elements are better in the proposed version.

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